Curse

Schnellburg · Dec 23, 2009, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reformed

You are spending 20 attribute points for 5% you will never notice. GoLE gives you essentially 2 free spells every 30 seconds. In 30 seconds the fight is over so did you carry your team or did your team carry you? More importantly did they even notice you were there.

Yeah the fight will be over in 30 seconds, hence GoLE will be cast before the battle, and again at the next group. Depending on what your running on your bar, that should be all the energy management you need, and the extra 5% is the break point that what 90% of the Mesmers out that hit, so I assume that is the best break point or are they all wrong too? And also 1 character does not carry a team, and if a Mesmer is around, you will notice it.

Mustache Mayhem · Dec 23, 2009, 05:12 PM // 17:12

yeah mesmer skills are awesome secondary.. on a hero though- they are better ints than ranger noticed, if you've ever tried to run 2 mesmer hero's with int bars- you can walk into a cast heavy mob and just do whatever you want XD on a player though in pve.. fast casting isn't too great

Reformed · Dec 23, 2009, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schnellburg

Yeah the fight will be over in 30 seconds, hence GoLE will be cast before the battle, and again at the next group. Depending on what your running on your bar, that should be all the energy management you need, and the extra 5% is the break point that what 90% of the Mesmers out that hit, so I assume that is the best break point or are they all wrong too? And also 1 character does not carry a team, and if a Mesmer is around, you will notice it.

My friend, I understand this is your pet class...I can respect that. If you are going to just make up statistics to support your argument however, then I simply don't know what to tell you. I find it difficult if not impossible to believe that you are perceptive enough to notice a 1/10th of a second difference in casting time on a 2 second spell. Just to help visualize how fast that really is human eye blinking is 3 times slower.

Schnellburg · Dec 23, 2009, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reformed

My friend, I understand this is your pet class...I can respect that. If you are going to just make up statistics to support your argument however, then I simply don't know what to tell you. I find it difficult if not impossible to believe that you are perceptive enough to notice a 1/10th of a second difference in casting time on a 2 second spell. Just to help visualize how fast that really is human eye blinking is 3 times slower.

Yes I'm making up those numbers, go look on Pvx. It may be a bad example, but I'll bet my account on it that just about every mesmer build on there has atleast 9 fast casting. So how are my stats made up?

byteme! · Dec 23, 2009, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schnellburg

Yes I'm making up those numbers, go look on Pvx. It may be a bad example, but I'll bet my account on it that just about every mesmer build on there has atleast 9 fast casting. So how are my stats made up?

I don't use 9 on FC all the time. So I'm the 1/10th in your argument? I suppose the next 9 posters all use 9? Wiki is full of shit and made up statistics is just that, made up. Like you said, wiki is a bad example. Provide a better one.

Raela79 · Dec 23, 2009, 07:23 PM // 19:23

I have a ridiculous amount of fun on my mesmer and in fact haven't played any other class in PVE. I think it's a versatile class with a lot of options just with signet of illusions alone, not to mention what you can do with domination and illusion, granted there does need to be some better FC skills.

Zahr Dalsk · Dec 23, 2009, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr love

sin - sux nuts without SF, or AP caller capabilities

You suck at Guild Wars, so hard I almost don't know where to begin. Oh, wait, I do know!

Moebius Strike
Death Blossom

Also, implying elementalist is good for damage, or that warriors can't run d-slash or earthshaker or triple chop or hundred blades.

You are a scrub.

Carinae · Dec 23, 2009, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr love

let's be honest, most classes are terrible for HM general play unless you rely on a secondary profession and pve only skills:

if u only use the skills from primary, almost all classes look like shite
war - defy pain tank? not my cup of tea. apply deep wound to one target? who cares
rang - traps? slow as arse. bow attacks? lol. beast mastery? good luck
mes - hex, degen or rupt 1 target? blows
monk - can pump heals or prots, but heroes and hench play terrible if you play as backline. you can play a rezbot (UA) or ROJ. how exciting.
derv - woo scythe attacks and pbaoe dmg! not.
para - 1 build and it relies heavily on pve skills
sin - sux nuts without SF, or AP caller capabilities

rit - excellent as we know
ele - good array of nukes
necro - MM or discord is decent

mesmer can do many things

This is an amazingly close-minded post, which demonstrates most of the problem with the GW playerbase. Tunnel-vision. You can only see through your speed-clear goggles.

Wars and Sins are the highest DPS classes in the game, bar none. Only Dervs are even close. SF? ObsFlesh? WTF? Learn to play. Do you really think immunity spells make you a better player? No they don't. You don't need to learn or THINK with SF active, which is why most people like it. Fine, but don't bite off on the illusion that that makes you good.

Necros are great, but NOT because of Discord, wow. You actually picked the one thing they are substandard at. Discord nerf is on the horizon anyway, prepare for it.

Eles are AWFUL at HM. TERRIBLE. Slow casting, aftercast delay, very few buffs available, non-armor-ignoring damage.... the list goes on and on. But yes, they are ranged, which means you can try to avoid having to learn how to play. PewPew, someone tank for me.

Mesmers...I've seen mes bars that rock PvE hard, Fragility + ALL conditions in about 3 seconds = boom. But yes, they are a misunderstood class and not really for beginners.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr love

but i must ask how often is warrior or assassin used for dps in high-end pve teams (i.e. speed clear etc)? 'tank, nuker, monk lfg' has been the general organized pve meta since i can remember, being sorrows furnace. the only exception being ursan era

Speedclears are NOT high end PvE. They are speedclears. They are gimmicky, wonky, COMPLETELY BAD bars that only do one thing in order to get more loot. Stop kidding yourself.

Speedclears are NOT high end PvE.

The proof is in the pudding. SCs are often PUGS, they want the SF/OBS/VOS tanks because they do't play with these people and don't know what else they can do. They want a 'sure thing'. PUGS can't be high-end, by definition, regardless of how fast they clear fow.

Eragon Zarroc · Dec 23, 2009, 08:17 PM // 20:17

pffft, mesmer is powerful enough with the idiotic pve AI

G4ymBoy · Dec 23, 2009, 08:59 PM // 20:59

why is it that i am not surprised when i see the creator of a thread like this is an 09er...

Cuilan · Dec 23, 2009, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reformed

I am saying don't buff them just to keep them in line with the overwhelming power creep already plaguing the game.

Power creep, no more skill changes, or nerfs. Pick one since AI changes are unlikely.

Reformed · Dec 23, 2009, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Power creep, no more skill changes, or nerfs. Pick one since AI changes are unlikely.

Power creep is a serious problem, THE serious problem in my opinion. Buffing Mesmers into orbit creating even more power creep is not a reasonable solution especially when it will also effect monster skill usage. If I am forced to choose between those 3 options I reluctantly choose nerf. Let's face what this is really about...tailoring the game to be more amenable to Mesmers. You've railed against other classes dominating the scene so how would altering it so that it benefits Mesmers be any different...ah nevermind, I see.

Oh, and why not try leaving my username alone when you quote me instead of turning into nonsensical garbage, or was that some sort of pathetic troll attempt? Save it for the playground.

Kaleban · Dec 23, 2009, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Easy fix for PvE Mesmers:

Change Domination Magic to actual DOMINATION!!1 I don't know how many RPGs I've played with a Enchanter or Psionic type character, but Domination magic or powers almost always allows one to take control of enemies to even out the odds of an engagement.

So why not re-work/re-name some of the Mesmer's Domination skills to allow the Mesmer to take control of enemies?

It could easily be expanded upon. The "controllable" amount of monsters would be based on the rank in Domination Magic, exactly like tehe Necromancer's Death Magic. There could be one or two regular DM skills that allow control for say 30 to 60 seconds of one or two enemies, a couple more skills that could increase the length of the Domination, and a few more that would enhance your dominated creatures in battle.

Also, there could be a couple of Elite Domination skills, such as one that makes the selected creature a "pet" as long as you remain in the zone, and another that could dominate multiple creatures at once, possibly with a health sacrifice or additional energy cost per dominated creature.

Or, and this plays into the Mesmer's energy manipulation talents, allow the Mesmer to Dominate as many creatures as he or she can, and each one causes 1 pip of energy degen, to represent the psychic cost of maintaining the link.

It just seems odd to me, now that I think about it, that this type of change was never conceived of even waaaay back. It seems an obvious connection to make, perhaps its the effete clothing they wear that distracted me lol.

But given the similarities between the Necromancer and the Mesmer, a change to Domination to make it ACTUAL Domination might reinvigorate the class as a PvE workhorse, much like the Ritualist's spirits and the Necromancer's minions.

Cuilan · Dec 23, 2009, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Reformed, sounds like you have your own pet professions? I mean, you don't seem to be open enough to see anything positive about mesmers. Doesn't help anyone better see your view or take you seriously.

Because someone values something that you don't, they must be biased or trolling.

Reformed · Dec 23, 2009, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Reformed, sounds like you have your own pet professions? I mean, you don't seem to be open enough to see anything positive about mesmers. Doesn't help anyone better see your view or take you seriously.

Because someone values something that you don't, they must be biased or trolling.

I play a Mesmer regularly, try again.

Lysinc · Dec 23, 2009, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

Easy fix for PvE Mesmers:

Change Domination Magic to actual DOMINATION!!1 I don't know how many RPGs I've played with a Enchanter or Psionic type character, but Domination magic or powers almost always allows one to take control of enemies to even out the odds of an engagement.

So why not re-work/re-name some of the Mesmer's Domination skills to allow the Mesmer to take control of enemies?

It could easily be expanded upon. The "controllable" amount of monsters would be based on the rank in Domination Magic, exactly like tehe Necromancer's Death Magic. There could be one or two regular DM skills that allow control for say 30 to 60 seconds of one or two enemies, a couple more skills that could increase the length of the Domination, and a few more that would enhance your dominated creatures in battle.

Also, there could be a couple of Elite Domination skills, such as one that makes the selected creature a "pet" as long as you remain in the zone, and another that could dominate multiple creatures at once, possibly with a health sacrifice or additional energy cost per dominated creature.

Or, and this plays into the Mesmer's energy manipulation talents, allow the Mesmer to Dominate as many creatures as he or she can, and each one causes 1 pip of energy degen, to represent the psychic cost of maintaining the link.

It just seems odd to me, now that I think about it, that this type of change was never conceived of even waaaay back. It seems an obvious connection to make, perhaps its the effete clothing they wear that distracted me lol.

But given the similarities between the Necromancer and the Mesmer, a change to Domination to make it ACTUAL Domination might reinvigorate the class as a PvE workhorse, much like the Ritualist's spirits and the Necromancer's minions.

I rather not have half the attribute line of Domination useless in PvP assuming the other half doesn't deal with controlling.

Lishy · Dec 23, 2009, 11:01 PM // 23:01

I cannot guarantee changes. But I, personally, want to see the mesmer buffed towards replacing a Curses necromancer and have their "indirect" damage expanded on

On a side note, I would love Illusionary Weaponry have a look taken at it for better use by mesmers in general PvE.

But this is just my wishlist as Kain, the player, and not as TK.

maxxfury · Dec 23, 2009, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Un-nerf the recharge times of all the skill that were nerfed due to Mor!

THAT is a nice step towards making AP less needed when trying to compete.

And maybe Un nerf some inspiration skills that were knobbed due to 2ndy abuse.

miriforst · Dec 23, 2009, 11:34 PM // 23:34

"lol. beast mastery? good luck"

funny, i did uw with ranger using good ol enraged lounge pet with gdw.
ended up with 147 dmg nearly spammable attack on aataxes and mindblades + deep wound + tanking capacity beeing able to solo through hordes of monster if the stupid pet AI was fixed lol.

anyway this is about mesmers and playing as a mesmer as second char i find it a bit narrow.

VOR i lovely and so is illusion eoe spike too...

but that makes my day.

there is a lot of waste mesmer skills (and certainly elites!) that could use a boost (go iw!) in pve since in pve enchantment removal and single target disabling is weak when all groups are agro-spike-repeat especially in high end.
there are not many ele bosses with party whipe Armageddon skills with 10 sec cast interrupt friendly.

and as disable/interrupt i prefer ranger 10X
with all these quick cast healing spells and all you cant have the long recharge on most mes rupts compared to the heart feeling ranger skills.
u cant realy have it in your marrow such as the bow attacks

(or at least i cant :P)

Kaleban · Dec 24, 2009, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lysinc

I rather not have half the attribute line of Domination useless in PvP assuming the other half doesn't deal with controlling.

I didn't mean change the WHOLE Domination line. Just like Death Magic has some minion/corpse stuff, and some direct damage, so too could the Domination line keep its effectiveness as is while changing or adding 6 to 10 skills and one or two Elites to Dominate creatures in PvE.

Basically the "controller" archetype, seen in many tabletop and computer games, or movies like Push and Scanners.